If business leaders donate, poverty will end.

Businessman who donated 60% of his fortune sees a moral obligation of the rich towards the poor.

Elie Horn, 74, is the only major businessman currently operating in Brazil who, during his lifetime, donated 60% of his fortune to charity. For him, the wealthiest have an obligation: to donate or donate. If they fulfilled this obligation, "poverty in Brazil would end in 10 years." Since the richest 1% of the country accumulates 49% of the wealth , according to Credit Suisse bank, perhaps far fewer than the thousand businesspeople estimated by Elie would be needed for this mission.

Born in Syria, Horn emigrated to Brazil as a child with his parents. His paternal grandfather sheltered orphans from the First World War. His father donated 100% of his wealth. From them, Elie, one of the richest men in Brazil, learned the meaning of the verb 'to donate'.

In this interview, the Orthodox Jew answered questions about contradictions and guilt, such as having created an empire and yet still talking about dividing it. Despite this willingness, he does not comment on political issues such as the taxation of large fortunes: "I prefer to answer that next time.".

It was in 2015 that he and his wife, Susy, became the only entrepreneurs in Brazil to join The Giving Pledge, a philanthropic project founded by Bill Gates (who donated 99% of his fortune) and Warren Buffett. According to the latest ranking by Forbes magazine, Elie Horn had a fortune of R$ 3.5 billion. "I think I do well in both roles, as a businessman and a philanthropist," Elie reflects. Check out the full interview below.

Was there a specific event that sparked your interest in philanthropy?
My grandfather, whom I never met, provided shelter for thousands of war orphans during the First World War. My father taught me the meaning of the verb "to give." He had little and gave 100% of what he had to charity. They did so much for the world, and I felt I couldn't be left behind.

“I wanted to give 100%, but my family wouldn’t let me. So, we made an agreement to donate 60%. The remaining 40% will go to my family, who will then do the same thing I did: donate money again.”.

In your opinion, what would be the obligation of the richest towards the poorest?
Conscience and morality. The problem begins with another question: why do I exist? Why do I live? What is the meaning of existence and what did I come to do in the world? It's a process of mental development that leads you to conclude that the only thing that gives meaning to your existence is the good you do or, by omission, the good you don't do. The reason for my life, and yours, is this. The fact that you ask questions makes you understand my mission. We are all accomplices involved in the same scheme. There is no innocence. We are all guilty until proven innocent.

What is our greatest fault?
Not doing enough. I apologize for not having done more. I hope to make up for it in the future. Good deeds include philanthropy and charity. But everyone does good in their own way.

And do we close our eyes to this good?
Closing our eyes is part of human nature. Someone taught me to say no. If you say "yes" to everyone, you've lost your essence as a human being. For there to be progress, there needs to be a cut. I need to sleep to wake up the next day. We close our eyes because there's no other way. It's not just you or me, but everyone.

The taxation of large fortunes is a heated debate. Since you mentioned "turning a blind eye," do you agree or disagree?
I prefer to answer you next time. It's a delicate and very broad subject. I can't talk about it without being prepared.

And can you learn to be good?
Yes, everything can be learned. In my case, my father was fundamental. He was a tough, rigid, authoritarian man, but he did good. You have three souls. A good soul, a not-so-good soul, and a neutral soul. Depending on your experiences, you nurture one or the other. Who is the most selfish person in the world? A six-year-old child wants everything for themselves, wants to receive everything and gives nothing. They receive love, but they don't give it.

As a businessman, are you able to maintain this good deed?
I do well in both roles, philanthropy and business. I love working, I hate when I get anxious being free. I try to mix good deeds with business. Last Sunday, we had a philanthropy committee to raise money for the weakest financial brokers. The brokers will raise the money, not me. It was their idea.
When brokers make money, they spend it all. When I was an executive at the company, when there was a price difference between what the buyer wanted to pay and what the seller charged, the difference went to charity. For example: I sell for 100 and you want to pay me 90. I accept 90, but you need to donate the extra 10. It's a mix of business and good deeds.

Economically, is it worthwhile to do good?
Economically, spiritually… Yes, it's very important. If you have something and don't give it back, you pay the price. You'd have to be very foolish not to choose to do good and pay the price in eternity. On a physical level, if you do good, good comes back to you too. Not everything is about intelligence; it can also be a blessing.

"If you donate money, you also teach your children not to be selfish. Doing good and giving money only bring positive things. Not doing good and not giving money is for fools: FOOLS.".

Do you notice a certain stupidity in businesspeople, you know?
(Laughs). I'm not going to talk about who I know. If I don't know them, I don't know them. I'm not going to talk about them either. But, in general, I see goodwill. What's missing is nudging people. It's a kind of dormant thing that needs to be awakened. When you awaken people, they help others.
There are very good partners who donate. There was a person who knocked on my door, came here to donate, and donated millions.

Did the pandemic give you a jolt?
People at home start thinking more about life. It's wrong to have a pandemic as a reason to do good. We have to do good until death. Your role, as a journalist, is to inform. From today onwards, you can have another mission: to get people to donate, to get people to speak well of philanthropy, and to wake up.

Do you think highly successful entrepreneurship is possible or just an illusion for the poor?
Illusion doesn't exist. Those who want it, do it. I don't remember ever wanting something in life and not getting it. Of the normal things I wanted, I set them as goals, and I thought I would achieve them no matter what – within normal means.

“The word 'no' isn't in my dictionary. Someone asked me about not being able to. Not being able to doesn't exist. I'm not going to try to fly and crash and burn. God isn't trendy, but for me, He exists. He's also a partner in good.”.

How did you turn your business into an empire?
I started working at 19, doing brokerage. Then, I started buying and selling apartments without money. The apartment was worth $10,000, I'd pay $1,000 and borrow the rest. I'd sell the apartment to pay off the loan. I started doing that, taking compound interest, and I built up a fortune. By age 29, I was very well-off and perhaps one of the wealthiest young people in the country. I took advantage of the gap that existed in the market.

“I was working 14 hours a day, six days a week. If you work 14 hours and someone else works eight, what’s the difference? Over 20 years, it’s brutal. If you earn money and spend it all, you’ll never have any money left. I had no other option; I either succeeded or I succeeded.”.

What do you think about the space that work occupies in life? Do we lose part of our lives working?
I think we lose it doing stupid things. We waste time doing and thinking stupid things. Too much leisure, too much drinking, too much of everything. That's bad, it's much worse to use time for nonsense than for positive things. Young people are different because they are discovering life and have to go through this. I think I didn't have a childhood, and I had little youth. Do I regret it? Not at all. I regret having wasted time on nonsense. At 15, someone I know started working and built an empire by 30. But he made self-sacrifice. There is nothing without self-sacrifice.

Returning to the subject of wanting: don't you think there are difficulties in this "wanting"?
By definition, wanting will always have difficulties. The world is deliberately full of confusion. It's up to me to reverse this position. Ending Brazil's problem is very easy. If a thousand businesspeople get together to donate, poverty in Brazil will end in 10 years.

"Brazil has two problems: a lack of education, which deprives people of their rights and perpetuates poverty; and, for there to be prosperity, it needs efficient governance. There cannot be conflict between the three branches of government. The country's social policy cannot change. Let the rest fight as much as they want, but they cannot take from the poor. This cannot be tampered with; there need to be strict laws. Disunity leads to mismanagement.".

What is the reward?
In my case, it was earning money to help others. Then, earning money so I wouldn't be dependent on others. Freedom consists of whether I want to work or not. I like independence and freedom. But freedom isn't chaos; it's the right to do good within my options. When I was young, I already did a little charity work. Among my friends, I would take a few cruzeiros from them to give to the person who was in front of the school.

When did this charity take on a different dimension?
I started from absolute zero. I made money from real estate. I started from zero again, with loans. At 38, philanthropy took on a different space in my life. It was maturity. But there is something I thought about a lot. In high school, I took the streetcar and walked a kilometer to get there. On the way, there was a child in the street with a physical disability, and that shocked me. Another time, I saw a pregnant woman with a baby, both in the rain… That shocked me again. I started asking: “God, if you exist, how can you allow something like this?” One question led to another. At the time I saw this, I was between 12 and 17 years old.

And do you think that governance in Brazil today is intelligent?
To the extent that there's conflict, it can't be intelligent.